True Conversations

Believer: The DH hasn’t been definitively proven, and until it has, I will continue to have faith in TMS.
Skeptic: That’s ridiculous, why would you have faith in something which doesn’t look very likely?
Believer: Because I see that TMS is true, for many reasons.
Skeptic: So if you have all these reasons, why do you need faith?
Believer: Err, I have faith that my reasons are good.
Skeptic: So without faith your reasons are crappy?
Believer: Err, no, but without faith the evidence is inconclusive
Skeptic: So if the evidence is inconclusive, why would you believe 100% in TMS?
Believer: Because I have faith!
Skeptic: But if the evidence is inconclusive, why have faith in TMS being 100% true? Why not have faith in TMS being 100% false. Or better yet why not just admit that the matter is inconclusive?
Believer: I have faith that TMS is true, despite the inconclusive evidence, for many reasons.
Skeptic: So if you have all these reasons, why do you need faith?
Believer: Err, I have faith that my reasons are good.
Skeptic: So without faith your reasons are crappy?
Believer: No, without faith it could go either way. But with faith, I believe.
Skeptic: So if you could go either way, why do you believe?
Believer: Because I have faith!
Skeptic: But why do you have faith in the first place?
Believer: For many good reasons
Skeptic: Then it’s not faith, its reasons!
Believer: Yes, but they're not reasons which would hold up as evidence.
Skeptic: So what kind of reasons are they?
Believer: More personal. Not objective scientific reasons.
Skeptic: Personal reasons? You mean bias?
Believer: No, not bias. Just reasons of a more personal nature.
Skeptic: I don't get it. Either they are good reasons or bad reasons.
Believer: They're good reasons, but I wouldn't necessarily expect other people to be convinced by them.
Skeptic: Why not? Because they're not very convincing?
Believer: Not to someone else. But to me they are.
Skeptic: Why would they be convincing to you, but not someone else?
Believer: Because they are more emotional than intellectual. They're hard to explain.
Skeptic: Emotional personal reasons sounds exactly like bias
Believer: Well, everyone is biased, including you.
Skeptic: So if you have the same bias as everyone else, and you have emotional personal reasons for believing TMS to be true, in what way do you have faith?
Believer: Well, I do believe in TMS.
Skeptic: Yes, but you believe for good reasons!
Believer: OK, so I don't have faith then. I have reasons. Happy?
Skeptic: So why have you written all these silly posts about faith?
Believer: For other people who may not have good reasons
Skeptic: But if they don't have good reasons, why should they have faith?
Believer: Because they should have faith in our tradition
Skeptic: Ahh, faith in. OK, so why should they trust our mesorah and not someone elses?
Believer: For many reasons.
Skeptic: So if there are good reasons to trust our Mesorah as reliable, then why do they need faith?
Believer: Reason can only get you so far. After that, you need faith.
Skeptic: So can reason get you to the point where TMS is true or not?
Believer: I believe it can.
Skeptic: So why do you need faith?
Believer: I personally don't. But other people might.
Skeptic: But why can't reason get them any further, like with you?
Believer: Everyone is different.
Skeptic: So let me get this straight. You have reasons why TMS is true. Good reasons. But they are personal, non biased reasons which are difficult to explain to other people. Therefore you encourage other people to have simple faith, if they can't see sufficient reasons. Is that it?
Believer: Err, something like that, I guess.
Skeptic: Hmmmm.