Atheistic Avreichim and Kefiradick Kollelnickim

Harry is one of the good guys. I like Harry a lot. But I must protest! Oh Harry!

Harry writes:

" I realize that my answers will not satisfy the hard core skeptics that require incontrovertible proof. "

NO! HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE REPEAT MYSELF?! SKEPTICS DO NOT REQUIRE INCONTROVERTIBLE PROOF. THEY JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS MOST LIKELY, GIVEN ALL AVAILABLE EVIDENCE AND LOGICAL THOUGHT.

PLEASE STOP WITH THIS STRAWMAN OF ABSOLUTE PROOF. ENOUGH ALREADY!

Harry writes:

"The probability that the entire physical universe with all of its majesty and complexity (especially that of the human being) came into being all by itself is so mathematically remote that it is an absurdity to believe that over the far more logical explanation of a spiritual Creator."

Aha. So the universe is too amazing / complex / majestic to have just popped into being all by itself. Clearly something so amazing / complex / majestic must have been brought into being by something just as (or perhaps even more) amazing / complex / majestic than itself. OK, let's go with that (though in truth that's an unfounded proposition).

So something amazing / complex / majestic caused the universe to be. And of course that something, being amazing and majestic, couldn't have popped into being all by itself, so that in turn was created by something. And that in turn was created by something. Uh oh. This isn't working too well.

OK, so lets say the universe was created by something amazing and majestic, but that something just popped into being. But I thought things can't pop into being? OK, I guess we'll make an exception, not sure why.

Now, what is this amazing creator thing? Do we know anything about it? Well, Harry isn't talking about Judaism so for now I guess the answer is no, we now nothing. Also, even according to Judaism, God is incomprehensible.

So basically, Harry's argument is this:

It is inconceivable that something as complex / finely tuned / amazing / majestic / incredible / insert adjective here could just have popped into being (or even evolved from the big bang). Therefore, it must be that some incomprehensible something created said universe. And oh by the way, the incomprehensible something which created the universe does not itself need to be created, for unknown reasons.

Oh, and by the way, for reasons unknown, we will call this incomprehensible something a 'Spiritual Creator'.

Yes, very convincing.

But maybe it's not so much about the universe, but rather it's about the amazing creation of man?

So Harry writes:

"I'm sorry. there is no way you will convince me that a thought is merely a chemical reaction in the brain and nothing else. That's ridiculous."

Wow, even more convincing. Never mind that we can measure electrical / chemical activity in the brain. There must be something else. Something we know nothing about.

Harry comments:

"Like I said. This post is not about Judiasm's view of God. It is just about the existence of God as a Creator. And I don't think you can ever convince me that the ball got there without 'someone' putting it there"

Harry is probably correct, there probably is no way you can ever convince him. But that's got nothing to do with logical arguments and everything to do with cultural conditioning, religious indoctrination and possibly evolution.

Why can't we just be honest? We humans intuitively (i.e. via evolution) feel that God exists. And HE may well exist for all we know. Personally I feel He does.

Of course there are also large sections of humanity who feel the same way about ghosts and spirits, but then they are just primitives, aren't they?