Combining traditional values and practices with non fundamentalist beliefs since 2006.
Tuesday, September 6, 2011
Hirhurim Strikes Gold
It takes a lot for me to post something these days, just too busy, and I've said pretty much everything there is to say. However this latest post from Hirhurim is worth reading. And in Elul too!
5
comments:
zach
said...
Eh, I thought you were going to fisk that moronic article that they published by Moshe Meiselman.
zach, i think you may be asking that on the wrong blog.
in any event, this comment on meiselman's piece was spot on.
J. on September 7, 2011 at 8:37 am Reading silliness such as this emanating from the pen of an otherwise intelligent individual leads me to despair of humanity. Positing last Thursdayism from one’s armchair is nothing more than a cop out. It is simply the supposition that we there is no point in trying to find out anything about the history of our world at all. When we discover a fossil showing patterns of daily growth in teeth or remnants of civilizations that existed continuously well before and throughout the period under discussion, R. Meiselman wants us to simply throw our hands up (and our brains out) and posit that all of this is simply meaningless. It is most surprising, according to the Meiselman theory, that we find any order whatsoever in the fossilised and geological remnants of times past (there are no fossil rabbits in the Precambrian for example, to quote JBS Haldane). Accoridng to him, geologists might as well close up shop, biologists can go home and anthropologists should ignore their findings. What is most upsetting is the unseriousness of this entire pseudo-intellectual project – its proponents have no plans for how we should reorder human knowledge in light of their theories. All told, there is something distinctly ungrateful about enjoying the benefits of all the conveniences that modern science has brought us, whilst disparaging the intellecual foundations that make it possible.
I am so over the Science and torah nonsense. 5 years ago I would have fisked it. Nowadays I have zero interest in anyone who starts talking about the conflict between science and Torah. It's like talking about the conflict between history and Harry potter.
I saw the article, have yet to read all the comments. My problem was that fighting about TV is the wrong place where to make a stand against Orthodox Puritans. I also wouldn't talk about fun, which brings up associations with amusement parks and summer camp. The topic should be more general ...imagination, fancy, play, subjectivity, privacy...are there spaces where I can think, visualize as I please, or are my innermost thoughts also subject to rabbinic apoproval. Is it ok to play, kibbitz, experiment?
When novels first became popular, moralists and preachers thought they were very dangerous. Women were writing for women, stories of true love and Gothic tales of being terrorized by men. These women, mostly young, were getting all sorts of romantic ideas in their head. And they were right. In time, women thought they were persons, equal in worth to men, and having the same right to live as they please.
If the rabbis had their druthers, they would squeeze and control everything. But when this control is internalized as a superego, creativity is destroyed and parnasah suffers. There is a reason why Orthodoxy has contributed almost nothing to the arts, the humanities or the sciences.If the community is to survive, there is a limit to how much life can be controlled. In a way this is the point of MO.
Posts
5 comments:
Eh, I thought you were going to fisk that moronic article that they published by Moshe Meiselman.
zach, i think you may be asking that on the wrong blog.
in any event, this comment on meiselman's piece was spot on.
J. on September 7, 2011 at 8:37 am
Reading silliness such as this emanating from the pen of an otherwise intelligent individual leads me to despair of humanity. Positing last Thursdayism from one’s armchair is nothing more than a cop out. It is simply the supposition that we there is no point in trying to find out anything about the history of our world at all. When we discover a fossil showing patterns of daily growth in teeth or remnants of civilizations that existed continuously well before and throughout the period under discussion, R. Meiselman wants us to simply throw our hands up (and our brains out) and posit that all of this is simply meaningless. It is most surprising, according to the Meiselman theory, that we find any order whatsoever in the fossilised and geological remnants of times past (there are no fossil rabbits in the Precambrian for example, to quote JBS Haldane). Accoridng to him, geologists might as well close up shop, biologists can go home and anthropologists should ignore their findings. What is most upsetting is the unseriousness of this entire pseudo-intellectual project – its proponents have no plans for how we should reorder human knowledge in light of their theories. All told, there is something distinctly ungrateful about enjoying the benefits of all the conveniences that modern science has brought us, whilst disparaging the intellecual foundations that make it possible.
Like Zach, I can't imagine what it was about that silly post that caught your attention.
On the very same page, you could have noticed this:
http://www.momentmag.com/moment/issues/2011/10/symposium.html
I am so over the Science and torah nonsense. 5 years ago I would have fisked it. Nowadays I have zero interest in anyone who starts talking about the conflict between science and Torah. It's like talking about the conflict between history and Harry potter.
I saw the article, have yet to read all the comments. My problem was that fighting about TV is the wrong place where to make a stand against Orthodox Puritans. I also wouldn't talk about fun, which brings up associations with amusement parks and summer camp. The topic should be more general ...imagination, fancy, play, subjectivity, privacy...are there spaces where I can think, visualize as I please, or are my innermost thoughts also subject to rabbinic apoproval. Is it ok to play, kibbitz, experiment?
When novels first became popular, moralists and preachers thought they were very dangerous. Women were writing for women, stories of true love and Gothic tales of being terrorized by men. These women, mostly young, were getting all sorts of romantic ideas in their head. And they were right. In time, women thought they were persons, equal in worth to men, and having the same right to live as they please.
If the rabbis had their druthers, they would squeeze and control everything. But when this control is internalized as a superego, creativity is destroyed and parnasah suffers. There is a reason why Orthodoxy has contributed almost nothing to the arts, the humanities or the sciences.If the community is to survive, there is a limit to how much life can be controlled. In a way this is the point of MO.
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