And the most honest answer is ...

I see that Hirhurim has dredged up the 'teiku' discussion again. The issue is, when there's no good answer to a question, is it better to just say 'teiku' - you don't die from a question, or better to try and answer? Personally I have always been conflicted over which response is the lesser of two evils - the Chareidi response of teiku (or just dismissing science completely), or the MO response of saying Torah is allegorical (which is just as fake an answer). I guess the fact that after 5 years I still can't decide shows (at least to me) that each approach is equally dishonest in its own way. Of course the most honest answer is sometimes 'Yeah, I guess the religion I happened to be born in to might not be the one true religion', but you won't be hearing that one anytime soon, it's bad for business.

Where will you find a new language, a way of talking that has fewer worn out, unrealistic metaphors?

ej commented on the rather lame line in my 'why be orthoprax' post:

"So basically, this is my reason for being Orthoprax. The OJ community (and to a lesser extent Conservative and Reform), pays attention to spirituality, morality, community and all those spiritual type things."

I knew it was lame when I wrote it, but I rarely go back and edit. I like my writing to be spontaneous and true to what I was thinking at the time. If I'm having lame thoughts, then that's what gets written.

ej commented:

"'ll be frank...WADR I think you lack the poetic-romantic impulses to convey such feelings and thoughts, and you do not have any definite ideas what is the spirituality you want or seek."

"I do feel if XGH could roll his eyes and wax poetic on the virtues of yiddishkeit, say like Rav Kook, he would gladly swoon away."

LOL, very true. But I'm an engineer, skeptic, Modern Orthodox, Rationalist INTP type of guy, swooning is just not my bag. However that does not mean I'm incapable of feeling it, I'm just incapable of expressing it. I have had some very intense transcendental moments, though not recently.

ej also writes:

"What I am being pushy about is having two standards, a mehadrin epistemology for Orthodox people, and a hodge podge utilitarian laundry list for not acting on the skepticism."

Firstly, I don't think my epistemology is 'mehadrin', it's just plain common sense. Secondly, does one need to have a well constructed philosophy to be utilitarian? I think the point of being utilitarian is to be pragmatic and practical. If OP works because of reason a,b, j and q, then it works. It doesn't need some grand scheme to justify it (though admittedly that would be nice, and was my holy grail for a while).

And what about the new language? I'm looking. The words are easy to find (just read Reform or Reconstructionist theology), it's the feeling behind the words that's hard.

Silver Spring

I'm in Silver Spring for the weekend. Do I have any fans in this town?

Why be Orthoprax?

A comment on the previous post:

"What I haven't heard on this blog is something about the sense of the sacred in a non-halachic, non-dogmatic traditional Jewish setting. Maybe I'm wrong but the orthoprax part seems rather dry without the mystery and yearning for the divine - whatever that word means. Maybe I sound a little Carlebachian but I'm really talking about something more serious. You seem to be all about intellectual arguments about the existence of the Divine. Maybe it's because of the MO background. Is there a place somewhere for those who think the divine is real but feel dogmas and dikdukei halachos just don't speak to us? You don't have to be a talmid of Dr. Freud to know that there is a lot more to the sum total than "merely" the rational and intellectual centers of the mind."

And here's something from Deepak Chopra:

"By making belief in God their enemy, atheists deprive themselves of what spirituality is really about: a process of inner growth. There are wisdom traditions around the world that do not use the word God (e.g., Buddhism, Vedanta) or advocate religious worship in the conventional sense. Countless people have seen through the faults of organized religion and turned instead to their own spiritual journey. Hitchens and other atheists stand at the door to that journey and slam it shut, assuring all who approach that to seek God, the soul, or higher reality is a fool's errand. How do they know? It's not as if they have inquired deeply into the great saints and sages who have successfully traveled such a journey. Hitchens dismisses every spiritual person out of hand, which means that he dismisses William Blake (the source of his phrase, "mind-forged manacles," which Blake applied to modern industrial life, not religion) in the same breath that he dismisses Bible Belt preachers.

By discounting the whole notion of spiritual awakening, atheists make a claim to false knowledge. They haven't walked the walk, yet somehow they know, with dead certainty, that Buddha, Socrates, Plato, Jesus, Confucius, Zoroaster, Saint Paul, Rumi, Kabir, the Prophet Muhammad, Rabindranath Tagore, and countless others aren't just wrong; they are stupid and blinkered compared to any everyday atheist today. I have my doubts. The atheists I've met went through a period of personal disillusion with religion, and on that basis alone they became atheists. Could anything be more subjective for a crowd that decries subjectivity? Could anything be more idiosyncratic for a group that claims to represent universal reason?"

So basically, this is my reason for being Orthoprax. The OJ community (and to a lesser extent Conservative and Reform), pays attention to spirituality, morality, community and all those spiritual type things. Without religion one can certainly be a private seeker of all these things, but generally people need social reinforcement. And of course from a cultural perspective, OJ provides the rich cultural fabric and heritage that many non OJ people seem to want, and OJ people would miss. I know people who gave up on OJ after becoming Orthoprax. They miss a lot. Maybe being able to eat at McDonalds on Shabbat makes up for it, but I'm not so sure. I also know plenty of people who are Orthoprax who totally don't have to be. Their spouses are non Orthodox, their families are not an issue. They could easily just leave. But they don't.

Top 13 reasons why I am Orthoprax

National Day of Prayer and Reason

Last week there was a national day of prayer. On the same day, atheist Congressman Pete Stark proclaimed a national day of reason. I actually think both would be good, I don't see that we need them on the same day. Also it's surprising that the Government would sponsor a religious day, but not a day of science, when the Government in fact funds a huge amount of science.

Anyways, I think most people should pray. This is because most people (not all) turn to prayer when all else fails, or there are no other options. When you have a terminal diagnosis, or when the plane is going down, you pray. That's completely normal. I even pray when my son is on bat, he's had two strikes and the bases are loaded. So, considering that most people will pray when the chips are down, it would be hypocritical not to pray when things are going well. So I pray then too. I pray a lot.

In fact, the only time I don't pray is during davening, then I'm too busy mumbling silly words to pray.

IMA Magazine: The Fundamentalists Among Us

Rejecting the minimum

Arnie Gutberg’s house is modern—the typical house of a Modern Orthodox family, with a nice carpet on the first floor and a selection of contemporary furniture. The media center in the dining room features a 46" Flat Screen TV, but most of what lines the Gutbergs’ shelves is books, crammed into bookcases around the main rooms of the house. The general air of the house is one of lack of self-control and western style spending. The family’s funds are invested in the intangible but substantial resource of the stock market. It is obvious that the money he brings in from his job has massively enriched his family. Normally, intellectual satisfaction and the light that a western-based lifestyle brings more than makes up for any existential angst in the life of a western family. The husband finds his life’s calling in his work; his wife has satisfaction in knowing that she is helping her husband and making her home a place of family, where she can raise her children to be upstanding members of the community.

Sadly, the Gutbergs’ can’t have that intellectual satisfaction because Arnie is a fraud. While he outwardly pretends to be a modern, western individual, he is nothing of the kind. He is a fundamentalist, plain and simple.

The Rambam, in his commentary on the Mishnah (Sanhedrin, chap. 10), famously compiles what he refers to as the Shloshah-Asar Ikkarim, the Thirteen Articles of Faith, gleaned from pesukim in the Torah. He refers to these thirteen principles of faith as “the fundamental truths of our religion and its very foundations.” But there are many Rishonim who took issue with the Rambam’s compilation. Most agree, that there are in fact no tenets which one must be aware of and accept in order to be a member of the Jewish nation.

While there have always been some who have become fundamentalists—and departed from the norms of common sense, modern society has unfortunately given rise to a new breed of fundamentalists—extremist, believing infltrators in our modern orthodox communities, schools, and even families. Those who throw off the light of modernity have generally been easy to recognize; not so people like Arnie. Outwardly, they act modern, yet internally they are fundamentalist-believers. They have severed all connection to common sense and reason, yet they behave and dress like you and me.

Modern Orthodox Jews who have embraced fundamentalist Judaism pose many more dangers to society than out-and-out extremists, not the least of which is the fact that the former are undetectable. Much has been written about the phenomena of so-called “adults who flip out”—Modern Orthodox Jews who have strayed into extremism because they’ve lost a vibrant appreciation of the beauty and truth of science and reason.

Dealing with this distressing phenomena is the primary goal of various blogs that have been started in recent years.

“Adults who flip out” is really a broad category. Dov Bear, who runs the Dov Bear blog, told me that he sees pretty much every Jew as an adult at risk, because we all need added rationality and common sense in our Judaism. But what we are referring here to those who have gone way beyond that—adults who are duplicitous, extremist infiltrators within the ranks of our communities.

Extremism is an old phenomena, discussed by psychologists and social scientists throughout the ages. Some of the communities in Europe suffered from nests of extremists. But the old-time extremist has been updated for the twenty-first century. New technology makes it much easier for those harboring and espousing extremist views to gain disciples. And schools and temples are no more immune from these fifth-columnists than they were in Europe.

The story is told that when the YU rosh yeshiva once found a R’Avigdor Miller book in the dorm in YU, he began crying. The person who was accompanying him downplayed the severity of the find, saying, “It’s just an Artscroll.” The Rosh Yeshivah replied, “In Europe, the bochurim who ‘went off the deep end’ were interested in spiritual subjects. They followed Chassidism, and we could deal with them by reintroducing them to the intellectual world of the rationalist Rishonim. But if they are interested in the foolishness of haredi fundamentalism, they are very far away from intellectual matter of any kind.”

To some extent, the Rosh Yeshivah's outlook on the bochur with the R Avigdor Miller book applies to the challenges Judaism faces in America today. Ideology and philosophy aren’t the obvious dangers today; the various lures of physicality and the lowest common denominator of American culture are the clear dangers facing us. The phenomena of kids at risk and adults at risk stem largely from these non-intellectual factors.

But there still are anti-intellectual threats posed by extremism, and the Internet has become a breeding ground for an ominous rebellion against the eternal truths of Science. Infected with the thought processes of extremist anti-intellectual philosophies, these extremists are among us as modern orthodox professionals, even in the higher ranks of our community.

Some refer to this group of people as Ultra Orthodox Jews (the prefix ultra- means “crazy” or “extremist”). The story of these Ultra-Orthodox Jews is a lesson about the intellectual dangers facing our YU boys and Stern girls even within their institutions. It’s a story about the effect that extremism has on marriages in our communities. And it’s a story about the dangers that the Internet poses to chochmas Yisrael.

The Sickness
There’s a certain wry edge to blogger Dov Bear. The head of a large blog in the New York/New Jersey area, Dov Bear’s schedule is filled with blogging about the stupidities and hypocrisy of the extremist Jews, as he brings people closer to the realities of Orthodox Judaism through blog posts, guest posts, and comments. But he consented to fit me in to discuss his less-amenable clientele.

LWMO Bloggers tend to attract people with extremist views in emunah, and Dov Bear has attracted his share. In particular, he has been harassed by a number of Ultra Orthodox young men, some married, some single. Dov Bear is open about his success rate with the Ultra Orthodox commenters: he has had no success at all. “I debated with them with the utmost of logic, reason and factual evidence. Nothing helped.”

Unlike many other extremist religions such as Radical Islam, these Orthodox men are not bitter toward modernity or the western world, says Dov Bear. They don’t claim to have been abused by Western Society, and their family lives tend to have been stable. None of the typical precursors to religious extremism were present in these Ultra Orthodox. They simply left their common sense behind, following instead a nonsensical thought process into the thicket of fundamentalism. Had they any true understanding of Judaism, they would have never felt threatened by secular thought. The problem is their superficial grasp of both topics.

He says the Internet was a major influence on their downhill slide, as opinion sites of various sorts advocate extremist positions. In fact, some of the bochurim that he knows moved from reading information on the Internet to publishing it themselves. Dov Bear, by the way, is not this blogger’s real name. He asked me to give him a pseudonym in order mask his identity. He is obviously scared by his interlocutors, and harbors a feeling of fear at how they buy into so many of the extremist theories posted online by any foolish Rabbi. He describes them almost as mentally ill. “To me, [their belief] is a sickness,” he says.

Elie is a perplexed young man that DovBear introduced to me. We spoke on the phone. He began teaching in yeshivah recently, but was in college through graduation. “I was raised Modern-Orthodox,” he says. He says he drifted into Ultra Orthodoxy because of so-called “Discovery Seminars.” I found the proofs that he raised, however, to be superficial; they were neither substantial nor new to anyone with knowledge of Judaism, especially if they have been involved in not being completely ignorant of history.

These are the same false proofs about Torah that have been debated and dealt with in the Jewish world for years. But he has closed his mind to common sense and reason.
“I spent years listening to kiruv rabbis at Aish Hatorah, Ohr Sameach, Arachim, and other organizations, as well as to classmates and rebbeim,” he admits. Eventually, he totally fell away from the underlying common sense of his ostensibly modern orthodox lifestyle. “I’m not one of those kids who were abused by western society but rather I have emotional complaints about life.”

In talking with these people, I found three reasons for their remaining hidden in the ranks of the Modern Orthodox. First, they enjoy the trappings of the Modern Orthodox world, taking pleasure in going to the Kiddush club on Shabbos, participating in the Yom Haatzmaut Celebrations, and maintaining other outward manifestations of modern Judaism. Second, they are often married and don’t want to leave the comfort of life with their wives and children, preferring to subject them to a living lie. Third, and most disturbing of all, those who are teachers yet still want to work in a modern orthodox school.

Eli told me himself that he teaches at a Modern Orthodox girls high school, since he earns much more in a Modern Orthodox yeshivah than in an Ultra-Orthodox yeshivah. “Aren’t you then an imposter preying on innocent girls?” I asked. “After all, which Modern Orthodox girl wants to marry someone who is an avowed fundamentalist believer?” “True,” he admitted. “On the other hand, if you have someone who was raised exclusively in an atmosphere that’s Modern Orthodox, that’s her entire life. How else can I hope to make her go to an extremist seminary in Israel and then flip out afterwards?”

The idea that an avowed fundamentalist would still be attempting to educate a modern orthodox girl is more than unnerving. In addition to the fact that the girl could end up marrying someone who has lost all traces of common sense, she would also most likely be duped into a relationship established on dishonesty, such as tax fraud or welfare fraud, as her kollel husband refuses to work and they must find financial support somehow.She would be tied not only to a fundamentalist, but a fraud.

All of the Rabbis I spoke to for this article told me that they have dealt with numerous marriages that are coming unglued because one member flipped out after seminary, married a frum guy, and now realizes how much she hates the kollel lifestyle. When I spoke to Rabbi Markowitz, he told me that he was dealing presently with four such cases; Rabbi Daniel Mechanical of Project Flipout told me that he has dealt with hundreds.

Since Eli is a Modern Orthodox teacher, be forewarned: He may be the one coming to teach your daughter today.

“No one can tell you exactly how many there are,” says Isaac Schonfeld, a close observer of the extremist elements in Orthodox Judaism. “But it is not a negligible number.” He has seen all types. “I know people who out-wardly look chassidish. They dress in black hats and appear passionate about Torah and Mitzvos, but they are nothing more than self-centered phonies. Yiddishkeit for them is simply a means to acquire Kovod and power.”

DovBear told me that there are two ways to look at the personalities of these extremists. “One is like Rashi says in Bechukosai: frst he’s not ameil in common sense and then he deteriorates from there, eventually trying to stop others from listening to common sense as well, and arriving finally at total extremism. Essentially, though, he’s justifying his taavos for meaning.”
This reflects the famous idea that fundamentalists proofs and arguments often aren’t really rational; they’re emotional based intended to excuse their not worrying about facts and evidence and the realities of life. “Even those who have sincere existential angst are not willing to realize that not all questions require made up answers. They’re not willing to accept the fact that we just don’t know how the Universe was created, whether there is a God, or who wrote the Bible. “Personally, I see it as a sickness.”

Indeed, atheists have no fewer questions than people of faith. There are far more questions to contend with when you stop believing. But Atheists accept the facts of the matter while fundamentalists are forced to create an ever increasing web of lies to justify the historical and scientific inaccuracies increasingly being revealed with religious mythology.

The second profile, as described by Dov Bear, is what Bertrand Russell describes at the end of his book on logic and reason. Bertrand Russell says that it is very difficult to prove reason to someone who has accepted faith. Unless a person is willing to be open to reason, he will simply refuse to be convinced. The end proof of reason is facts and evidence, says Bertrand Russell, and the best someone else can do for the avowed believer is to send him to therapy.

The way to deal with this issue requires not only great psychological training but also much wisdom. Several psychologists that I spoke with disagreed with the characterization that it is an intellectual problem rather than an emotional one.

Dr Jerry Milstein, a senior psychologist at Mt. Sinai and the executive vice president of Project Flipout—a lecture series about the dangers of fundamentalism given in hundreds of Modern Orthodox high schools across the country—says that he sees Ultra Orthodox Jews literally every day. He told me that in working with therapists he has found that emotional problems are behind almost all fundamentalisms. “In addition to many other things, to not believe is terrifying.” Immersed in a religious world, they are free from all existential angst about the meaning of life. “Why would they give that up if they didn’t have some emotional issues?”

Dangerous Waters
The type of extremist that Dov Bear describes is at least partially a product of exposure to writings hostile and detrimental to modern society. Science can seem as solid as a brick wall when we are sitting in the university or corporation among people with deep wisdom. But modern society and values are truly a fragile item that need to be protected.

In the past, a yeshiva university student had a simple defense against extremist ideas: he was not exposed to them. To find a book with extremism would take at least the effort involved in walking to the library. If parents monitored the reading material that their children were getting, they could keep them safe.

The Internet has changed that. Shaya is a young Ultra Orthodox man who consented to be interviewed by email, and he had some very interesting and enlightening things to say. “I grew up in a relatively Modern Orthodox household and went to a Zionist, Modern Orthodox Day school. At a young age I was enamored by Torah learning in general and Gemara in particular. In order to pursue learning further, with my parents’ enthusiastic support, I went to a Charedi yeshiva, where I stayed for six years. I started off as the star bochur, acing tests, memorizing Gemaros, etc. In time, I became an extremist fundamentalist who no longer eats at his parents home. I didn’t go to college and now I commit welfare fraud and make my wife work while I sit

on a chair at the kollel.”

What I found most chilling was his response to my question about whether the Internet had an effect on his common sense: “On this point the Charedim have it right; my extremism was largely fueled by Kiruv Sites on the Internet. The Internet allowed me easy access to all sorts of information that I might not have even thought of looking at otherwise. All the ‘extremism’ I could imagine was at my fingertips. I remember sitting for long hours surfing R Dovid Gottleib’s web site perusing all the information available, groping around and finding more and more extremism.”

Eli also told me that the Internet was influential in his move to the Chareidi world. “It provides you a way to access any amount of fundamentalism you want.” Dov Bear, again, confirmed that most of the Ultra Orthodox he has dealt with have used the Internet as a place to find extremist ideas or to communicate with others of similar beliefs. The Internet allows the Orthodox to attack the modern world while feeding off it.

When I visited Arnie in his house, the conversation gradually came to an uncomfortable halt. After all, I did not have much in common with one who has lost his last vestige of common sense and rationality.

Mindful of the psychologists statement about therapy for someone who has lost their marbles, I asked Arnie for his name and his insurance. He gave them to me, with a twisted smile. Then I fled.

New Yeshivah to open in Ellul, has "methods" to deal with err, you know what

So RYGB is founding a new yeshivah, and is basing it on the philosophy of Nathan Birnbaum, a secular Zionist turned BT. There's a somewhat unusual "Vision" posted here.

The strangest part is this:

The Internet is here to stay. There is no way the bulk of Yahadus HaTorah can hide their collective heads in the sand. And if that means that almost everybachur today is exposed to pornography, we have to deal with it. If it means they will be texting constantly, acting inappropriately on blogs and on Facebook, we also have to deal with it.

The bulk of talmidim are into "goyishe music," are up on TV and movies (even if we have no TV's in our houses! even if we have extensive web filters - amazing, right?! I was blown away the other day by the existence of a site called bahalt.com - check it out!!). So we have to deal with it.

And, I am very pained to say this, but we have hid our faces from the phenomenon to our own detriment for far too long. Many, if not most, bachurim have problems with what we can delicately call ni'uf b'yad. So we must deal with it.

Moreover, most of our talmidim find a certain sippuk in these pursuits that we are not giving them (in no small part because 75 years ago we ignored those lines of Dr. Nathan Birnbaum).

Yeshivas HaOlim will deal with it. This is not the place to explain how. Those who know me and my shiurim know some of my methods.

So without getting pritzusdick (please, this isn't DovBear), what the heck is he talking about? In the comments he 'explains':

"The "dealing with it" is the explanation al pi darchei Avodas Hashem and a focus on His'alus as to the inner problems and issues that such behavior generates and working on them together. (In many yeshivos the policy is that revelation of such issues is grounds for "expelling first, asking questions later." The other component of a holistic approach is demonstrating how the ma'or in Torah is a thrill that is far more meaningful and rewarding. One aspect of the approach without the other would not suffice."

Not much help. I always assumed that if the 'behavior' in question is of normal frequency and proportions, the best approach is 'don't ask don't tell'. it's just a normal part of life. I mean, a yeshivah shouldn't be encouraging it I guess (though some would argue its actually healthy behavior), but "dealing" with it? Of course someone who is seriously addicted to such behaviors probably has some kind of issue, but its fairly normal for most people as far as I can tell. Is this really an issue of such importance that it needs to be part of the founding vision for a new Yeshivah?! Sounds very strange to me. Maybe I'm just out of touch with modern youth.